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  1. #1
    Bob Rogers
    Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness
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    Thread Starter

    Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness

    From: Crispin Cowan <crispin@immunix.com>
    Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:42:07 -0700

    Shaun Clowes wrote:

    >I think it's generally accepted that homogenity breeds insecurity, in
    >which case it makes sense to try to be as different from everyone else
    >as possible even if that doesn't make it impossible for someone to break
    >you.
    >

    That is a commonly held view, but I would not say it is widely accepted.
    I certainly don't accept it.

    Heterogeneity increases survivability of the *species*, but does little
    to protect the individual . . .

    I don't think that stands up, at least not for digital species. I can
    run Apache on Linux/x86, for which tons of shellcode is available, or I
    can run the same version of Apache on Linux/sparc, for which much less
    is available, and exists within a smaller and more specialized
    community. For a member of a biological species, this would be
    tantamount to switching to an entirely different biochemistry at will,
    in order to become indigestible to the majority of predators (and making
    the Darwinian metaphor much harder to digest in the process).

    From this perspective, it is clear that choosing the "biochemistry"
    of Sparcs would protect me as an individual. At the very least, I can
    expect to have more time to patch my Sparc when a new vulnerability
    comes to light.

    . . . At most, you could say that running the most common system
    makes you somewhat more vulnerable to attack, and you should take
    that into consideration when planning your security.

    Yes; and it would be interesting (though probably difficult) to quantify
    that. Exploits are often cobbled together from several sources, so the
    size of an "exploit community" has a direct bearing on how quickly an
    exploit becomes available after a member of that community learns of an
    exploitable flaw. Perhaps the dependence of time to exploit on
    community size is even quadratic? If so, then heterogeneity benefits
    the whole ecological niche, by fragmenting exploit communities and
    therefore making them less efficient.

    So heterogeneity is really just security by obscurity, dressed up to
    sound pretty . . .

    Seems to me that obscurity is the *only* defence against exploits for
    unpublished/unpatched vulnerabilities that are spreading in the cracker
    community; if you can avoid being a target, by whatever means, then you
    are ahead of the game.

    Anyway, thank you for posting, and making me think.

    -- Bob Rogers
    http://rgrjr.dyndns.org/

    P.S. to moderator: I am hoping that this has diverged sufficiently from
    the original "Buffer overflow prevention" thread to be worth approving . . .

  2. #2
    Crispin Cowan
    Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness
    Gast
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    Thread Starter

    Re: Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness

    Bob Rogers wrote:

    > Heterogeneity increases survivability of the *species*, but does little
    > to protect the individual . . .
    >
    >I don't think that stands up, at least not for digital species. I can
    >run Apache on Linux/x86, for which tons of shellcode is available, or I
    >can run the same version of Apache on Linux/sparc, for which much less
    >is available, and exists within a smaller and more specialized
    >community....
    >
    > . . . At most, you could say that running the most common system
    > makes you somewhat more vulnerable to attack, and you should take
    > that into consideration when planning your security.
    >

    These statements seem to agree. Is there a point?

    >Yes; and it would be interesting (though probably difficult) to quantify
    >that.
    >

    It is difficult to quantify just about any security benefit.

    > So heterogeneity is really just security by obscurity, dressed up to
    > sound pretty . . .
    >
    >Seems to me that obscurity is the *only* defence against exploits for
    >unpublished/unpatched vulnerabilities that are spreading in the cracker
    >community; if you can avoid being a target, by whatever means, then you
    >are ahead of the game.
    >

    Now that is just not true. All of the technologies in the previous
    thread (StackGuard, PointGuard, ProPolice, PaX, W^X, etc.) have some
    capacity to resist attacks based on unpublished/unpatched
    vulnerabilities. That is their entire purpose.

    Crispin

    --
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. http://immunix.com/~crispin/
    Chief Scientist, Immunix http://immunix.com
    http://www.immunix.com/shop/



  3. #3
    Nicholas Weaver
    Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness
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    Thread Starter

    Re: Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness

    On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 08:56:51PM -0700, Crispin Cowan composed:

    > >Seems to me that obscurity is the *only* defence against exploits for
    > >unpublished/unpatched vulnerabilities that are spreading in the cracker
    > >community; if you can avoid being a target, by whatever means, then you
    > >are ahead of the game.
    > >

    > Now that is just not true. All of the technologies in the previous
    > thread (StackGuard, PointGuard, ProPolice, PaX, W^X, etc.) have some
    > capacity to resist attacks based on unpublished/unpatched
    > vulnerabilities. That is their entire purpose.


    Likewise, the worm research has been focusing on how to automatically
    detect, analyze, and respond to a new worm or similar threat. For
    some classes (eg, Scanning worms like Slammer, blaster, code red,
    etc), this appears quite doable.

    So the likely viable worm defenses ideally should deal with 0 day
    worms, which means stopping a new vulnerability contained in a new
    worm.

    --
    Nicholas C. Weaver nweaver@cs.berkeley.edu

  4. #4
    Crispin Cowan
    Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness
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    Thread Starter

    Re: Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness

    Eric Greenberg wrote:

    >Heterogeneity has played a major role in disastor and recovery designs for
    >as long as I can remember (that would be the past 20 years). Equally so, I
    >

    Be *very* careful here: security is fundamentally different from fault
    tolerance. FT needs to defeat random, independent faults, and
    heterogeneity helps. Security needs to defeat an intelligent adversary,
    and the adversary can defeat two heterogeneous systems with
    approximately twice the effort of defeating a single system. The
    defender, in turn, has to spend approximately twice the effort to deploy
    dual heterogeneous systems as to deploy a single system.

    I argue that it is worse than that, because the effort to defeat two
    heterogeneous systems is somewhat *less* than double that of a single
    system (because the attacker can exploit common design and
    implementation failures) and the effort to deploy & operate dual
    heterogeneous systems is somewhat *more* than double that of a single
    system (because the defender must account for both consistency and
    incompatibility).

    Once again, it is not that heterogeneity doesn't work. It's that for the
    goal of defending a single resource, it is not as cost-effective as due
    diligence & best practices, such as properly employed authentication,
    firewalls, and secure operating systems.

    Crispin

    --
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. http://immunix.com/~crispin/
    Chief Scientist, Immunix http://immunix.com
    http://www.immunix.com/shop/



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